tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post7526409070222671793..comments2023-10-12T14:09:33.965-07:00Comments on The Biblia Hebraica Blog: My Ranking of English Bible TranslationsDouglas Mangumhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-31796430801554979782008-09-04T21:33:00.000-07:002008-09-04T21:33:00.000-07:00You godless heathen! It is obvious that the True R...You godless heathen! It is <I>obvious</I> that the True Ranking of Bible Versions is as follows:<BR/><BR/>1) Reina-Valera 1960<BR/>2) Reina-Valera 1909<BR/>3) Reina 1569<BR/>4) Valera 1602<BR/>5) Original AV 1611 (NOT the Cambridge 1769!)<BR/><BR/>And that's it. Now, THAT is "completely objective and based entirely on how close all the translations are to the original autographs"! Oh, but I do agree about the CEV. I started writing a post about its Spanish equivalent several months ago; maybe I'll dig it out and see if it's worth finishing and posting.Esteban Vázquezhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09738869673774603152noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-13245824014747198002008-09-04T10:55:00.000-07:002008-09-04T10:55:00.000-07:00TC, I'll try to find some time in the near future ...TC, <BR/><BR/>I'll try to find some time in the near future to examine my position on the TNIV vis-a-vis the NLT and NRSV. I want to be consistent and objective in my evaluation, so I need to make sure that I'm not overlooking something or arguing a straw man in my disapproval of the TNIV. I'll let you know what I find out.Douglas Mangumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-32699496350045881702008-09-04T10:38:00.000-07:002008-09-04T10:38:00.000-07:00Doug, thanks for some clarification and sorry abou...Doug, thanks for some clarification and sorry about some of my typos.<BR/><BR/><I>TC: that's why your list would look different from my list. I think NLTse is fairly accurate as far as dynamic-equivalent translations go. As far as NASB95 being second, remember my preferences - literal before literary. I agree that the TNIV is an improvement over the NIV. Right now, I'm trying to sort out the gender-neutral language controversy that keeps me from recommending it.</I><BR/><BR/>I respect your list, and yes, it would not be mine (haha).<BR/><BR/>But if you're going to include the NLT and the NRSV but not the TNIV, then you confuse a guy like me. On the same basis the you excluded the TNIV, you should have done the same for the NRSV and the NLT. But it's not my list.tcrobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02518043696892409099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-58714234322900801402008-09-04T09:35:00.000-07:002008-09-04T09:35:00.000-07:00Thanks for clarifying.I hesitated posting on the s...Thanks for clarifying.<BR/><BR/><EM>I hesitated posting on the subject and drawing the attention of such a passionate group of bloggers.</EM><BR/><BR/>No problem from me.<BR/><BR/>I like your premise.<BR/><BR/>I'm trying my best. In going through <EM>Greek for the Rest of Us</EM> at least I'm learning some basic aspects of the Greek language even if I don't go on to really learn it. Not to mention Hebrew. It certainly makes me less critical of most translations and shows me even more how unqualified I am to evaluate them from a critical standpoint.<BR/><BR/>Right now I'm trying to learn if the HCSB is good for "serious study" as in phrasing/diagramming etc.<BR/>JeffScripture Zealothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16369216903482122513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-61077302000384642922008-09-04T09:20:00.000-07:002008-09-04T09:20:00.000-07:00Josh, I mentioned The Message at the end of the po...Josh, I mentioned The Message at the end of the post when I said that "I can't stand paraphrases." You've done a good job at illustrating why.Douglas Mangumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-45889708690364080072008-09-04T09:16:00.000-07:002008-09-04T09:16:00.000-07:00Jeff, Actually consulting several translations tha...Jeff, <BR/>Actually consulting several translations that cover the spectrum of translation philosophy is great way to study the Bible if reading the original language is not an option. And I realize that it is not an option for a lot of people for many reasons. <BR/><BR/>As for my intent, I was poking fun and wanted to let people know about those 4 blogs that were relatively new to me and I've found all the various discussions of bible translation very lively and interesting. I hesitated posting on the subject and drawing the attention of such a passionate group of bloggers.Douglas Mangumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-84533955511821783962008-09-04T09:11:00.000-07:002008-09-04T09:11:00.000-07:00Uhm, Douglas, have you ever heard about a little t...Uhm, Douglas, have you ever heard about a little translation called the Message?! Sheesh. Talk about an accurate translation.<BR/><BR/>"And ye, Jesus was all like, 'What's up, Apostles?' and lo, the Apostles were all like, 'Psssh, just taking a nap...chillax, man, seriously.'"Josh McManawayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03503876183620206761noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-54359749436775100702008-09-04T08:54:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:54:00.000-07:00I'm not quite sure of your intent here:For other v...I'm not quite sure of your intent here:<BR/><EM>For other views and regularly lively discussions about Bible translations, there's a lot going on at the blogs by TC Robinson, ElShaddai Edwards, Rick Mansfield, and Scripture Zealot. I think they should all just get together and make their own translation, but they seem to like just constantly consulting 4 or 5 of them. I'm beginning to lean toward the "everyone needs to learn the biblical languages position" favored by my friends Calvin and John.</EM><BR/><BR/>Do you mean it's not a good idea to consult as many as 4 or 5 translations? I'm not sure if this is criticism or being poked fun at. (I always take the latter as a sign of affection.) <BR/><BR/>Starting a few weeks/months ago I for the most part stopped writing any posts of mine that are critical in a negative way of translations. I just point out positives or do some comparisons to point out how one may bring out the meaning. Although I have been critical of some of ESV's archaic word choices from time to time.<BR/><BR/>Thanks.<BR/>JeffScripture Zealothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16369216903482122513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-46173009879828673382008-09-04T08:37:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:37:00.000-07:00Thank you for your second paragraph. It articulate...Thank you for your second paragraph. It articulates two opinions that I have much better than I could have said it. <BR/><BR/>I feel the same way as you about the HCSB gender policy but am kind of afraid to say it because of how elevated the gender issue has become. Although I understand the general stance of gender inclusivity where merited and don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't let that keep me from using the HCSB as a main translation.<BR/>JeffScripture Zealothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16369216903482122513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-19873436357098221882008-09-04T08:20:00.000-07:002008-09-04T08:20:00.000-07:00El: Thanks for recognizing the way that I framed ...El: Thanks for recognizing the way that I framed the discussion in your first comment. TC's linked to this post (<A HREF="http://newleaven.com/2008/09/04/biblia-hebraica-top-ten-bibles/" REL="nofollow">New Leaven</A>) and I'm not sure all who are discussing there fully appreciate the framing. As of right now, my comments there are still awaiting moderation.Douglas Mangumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-31092276827562977602008-09-04T06:22:00.000-07:002008-09-04T06:22:00.000-07:00I see the TNIV as bending the translation to confo...<I>I see the TNIV as bending the translation to conform with modern sensibilities about gender issues.</I><BR/><BR/>Okay, I could see that argument - clearly the NLTse and NRSV represent more thorough revisions of their predecessors than just bending the texts (as the ESV did to the RSV, and the TNIV to the NIV). I'll look for your posts on the TNIV...ElShaddai Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06716066390161033335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-32033538139792303602008-09-04T06:15:00.000-07:002008-09-04T06:15:00.000-07:00TC: that's why your list would look different from...TC: that's why your list would look different from my list. I think NLTse is fairly accurate as far as dynamic-equivalent translations go. As far as NASB95 being second, remember my preferences - literal before literary. I agree that the TNIV is an improvement over the NIV. Right now, I'm trying to sort out the gender-neutral language controversy that keeps me from recommending it.<BR/><BR/>El: I posted about the TNIV a couple of times in August and discussed the gender issue. I might not have explicitly explained how the NRSV and NLT are different though. I view both of them as being mainly inclusive in approach and the NRSV does the job better. I see the TNIV as bending the translation to conform with modern sensibilities about gender issues. We can't translate this patriarchal ancient text that way, women might be offended. I'm confused by that approach. Where do you stop when you're trying to make the Bible less offensive? Should we make it say less about sin? That could offend people, too.Douglas Mangumhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15267532075493569019noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-46947990188775777852008-09-04T05:25:00.000-07:002008-09-04T05:25:00.000-07:00Thank you for framing your discussion with what yo...Thank you for framing your discussion with what your translation "preferences" are - too often these ranking posts appear without that context. I happen to disagree with some of your preferences, but <A HREF="http://heissufficient.net/bibles/" REL="nofollow">my list</A> still has a fair bit of overlap.<BR/><BR/>I wonder, can you comment more on how you view the approach to gender language differently in the TNIV than in the NLT or NRSV, both which appear on your list? I'm not a TNIV apologist, but I've seen the apparent incongruity before from multiple sources and I've always been curious what the difference is...ElShaddai Edwardshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06716066390161033335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3613525030683671127.post-24746328970487115762008-09-03T23:54:00.000-07:002008-09-03T23:54:00.000-07:00Doug thanks for the link. The NASB95 is fine is so...Doug thanks for the link. The NASB95 is fine is some places, but it became to awkward after a while. I surprise that you have it at #2.<BR/><BR/>What do you mean by read and accurate and then readable but no mention of accurate. For example, you have the NLT at #3 as readable, but at #5 you have the HCSB as both readable and fairly accurate.<BR/><BR/>The TNIV is an improvement of the NIV, but it didn't make you top ten.<BR/><BR/>In my opinion, the NRSV is a better bible than the ESV.tcrobhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02518043696892409099noreply@blogger.com